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High Density RAM – Even I Get Suckered Sometimes

The Hunt

So just to prove that we "computer guys" can't know everything about everything, here's a little story of how I got suckered on eBay.

I finally decided that my computer needed an upgrade and RAM is always the #1 choice (since I only had 1Gb, I knew I needed more). I started hunting around, but found out something unpleasant. In the year and a half since I built my computer, DDR RAM has been replaced by the newer DDR2 to the point that DDR is now twice as expensive!

While I was hoping to score 2Gb for around $70 (or less), the cheapest I could find was $100 (not including shipping)! Enter eBay. I watched a few auctions to see what prices people were getting for DDR RAM and it wasn't looking good. The prices were almost as high as retail.

Found!

After a few days, Something great happened! I saw a set of DDR RAM for only $26 each!

The picture showed a normal-looking RAM chip with a Samsung logo and the big words SALE SALE emblazoned upon it. The Auction was listed as "SAMSUNG 1GB DDR PC3200 400MHz 1 GB PC 3200 2700 184-Pin". That's the size and speed of RAM I wanted and Samsung is a good brand so I was thrilled!

I skimmed over the details of the memory because I know what memory is and what it does and went to the shipping and other policies. He listed a shipping price of $10 per stick and said that he wouldn't combine since their prices were so low. With a quick calculation, I found that two of the sticks including shipping would only be around $70 so I granted him this small dishonesty (Not combining shipping is such a scam after all. I mean really, does it cost a bookstore $3.50 for each book in a box? I don't think so).

So I'm excited to get my RAM upgrade and it finally comes! What the hell is this?

…the hell?

I got something that looked like this in the mail. Wtf?
I got something that looked like this in the mail. Wtf?

I didn't even open the plastic and went straight to the Internet to do some research. What I found was not encouraging. Apparently, there's this thing called "High Density RAM" that is cheap, generic, and incompatible with most motherboards.

When I went back to the auction, I found that, in the section where he includes a lot of basic RAM information that no one cares about like…

This is a 128M bit x 64 Double Data Rate SDRAM high density memory modules. The module consists of 128Mx4 bits16 CMOS with 4banks Double Data Rate SDRAMs in 66pin BGA packages mounted on a 184pin glass-epoxy substrate.

…he had a section in labeled "What is High Density" which I skipped over because I know what "High Density" means and I was more concerned about auction specific data, not stuff that was likely cut and pasted from a manufacturer website or some other auction.

It turns out that there's auction specific information in the "High Density" section and it contains some important disclaimers like:

Hmm. That's kinda important don't you think? Ok, so this guy has a disclaimer, but I if this guy didn't intend to manipulate and mislead, he ended up doing a pretty damned good job by accident. Allow me to explain.

If I Did It…

If I were to try and foist off my high-density RAM which I know won't work for most people and most people won't want, I'm going to need to make them think that it's normal RAM. For the record, I'm not saying that he did this, but it's what I would do if I were a dirty thieving scumbag who wanted to trick people.

Brand Confusion

Three lies in a single photo
Three lies in a single photo

First, I'm going to tell you that it's Samsung memory and splash their logo around which isn't quite a lie because the chips on the generic memory card are Samsung brand after all.

Picture Confusion

Next, the only pictures I'll use will be of a completely normal, non-assuming stick of DDR RAM. It looks like every other stick of RAM around so naturally, people who shop entriely by sight will be caught immediately and for everyone else, it will still create a strong mental impression.

Pretend it's on Sale

Third, I'm going to pretend it's a big SALE by putting the words "SALE" on the picture and including text like this: "**Exceptional service and high quality products meet super low prices**" and "Lowest price Ever! Hurry before it gone, Biggest sale**" and

We will NOT combine shipping charges for multiple items purchase however we will ship in the same package. Consider your total cost by adding S&H. We are trying to offer you the lowest price as possible by cutting down the unnecessarily cost. We don't appreciate negative feedbacks because of the high S&H. [emphasis mine – JD]

That way, people won't realize that it's actually just cheaper memory that you can barely give away. They'll think it's standard memory that's on a good sale and that, hell, they're doing you such a favor that you shouldn't be such a louse to complain that they rip you off in shipping charges.

Hide the Bad Stuff

What the page looks like if you scroll past the section that's supposed to have generic technical information, not important disclaimers.
What the page looks like if you scroll past the section that's supposed to have generic technical information, not important disclaimers.

Lastly, I'm going to avoid getting in trouble for "false advertising" by having text that explains what High Density RAM is right there in with the rest of the text including a nice big red header. But if people acutally read this section, I'm not going to get any sales so I'm going to hide it in plain sight.

First, I'm going to take advantage of the fact that most eBay auctions contain a whole lot of details of the product cut and pasted from a manufacturer's site. Most people have figured this out and when they find what they need, they'll skip over this section and go straight to the auction specific information about shipping, returns, item condition and quality etc.

By sticking my disclaimer in the middle of the "basic non-auction specific" section of the listing, people are far more likely to assume that nothing in there is relevant data. But I've got that "Big Red Header" which might draw their attention.

To handle that, I'm not going to use "Check Your Compatibility", "Does Not Work With ASUS", or even "How High Density is different than Standard DDR". All those might give an impression I don't want so I'll just call it, "What is High Density". That's nice and generic and sounds like unimportant technical details like all the other text surrounding it. Hopefully, even if someone does notice the heading, they're not going to get the idea that it's really important.

Finally, I'm going to further separate the "Generic, but mostly unimportant information section" from the "Stuff that actually matters section" by using HTML columns and borders and a row of stars (**************) to divide the two visually.

Pulling it Together

If I did it right, you're going to think it's a normal brand of normal memory that just happens to be on a big sale. With my clever page division and hiding the really important information in with the technical details rather than the important auction related section (where important disclaimers and known compatibility issues should go), I've almost guaranteed that I'll sucker enough people to offload all of the memory or at least turn a profit by constantly shipping, returning, and reselling the memory with my overcharged shipping fees.

Getting a Refund

So of course, after learning I'd been suckered, I packed it right back up and sent it back to him which cost me $16 (including shipping confirmation and insurance). That's ok, I'll pay for my mistake, but I sent him an e-mail demanding a full refund including the shipping (which was $20 if you remember).

Which, of course, he's refusing because of his "Big Red Disclaimer". Well, I'm going to get my money one way or another and here's how:

Option 1: Be Nice

I want to try and convince him to refund it himself so the first thing I'll try is letting him know that listing it as Samsung memory and using their logo when it's not a Samsung product could be considered fraud or false advertising or something like that and eBay, PayPal, Samsung, and the California Attorney General's office (I know he's in California because of the shipping address) are sure to take notice.

I have a hard time believing he won't refund me $20 in the face of inquiries by these forces.

Once I get the refund, I'll contact the The Consumerist and maybe digg to advertise this issue, but I won't notify eBay or any of the others directly.

Option 2: Ask the Consumerist For Help

Assuming Option 1 fails, I'll try this instead:

Nothing like a little bad publicity and some weight from an established pro-consumer organization. They seem to be able to find phone numbers and contact info for people in the right places to get consumer issues solved. Rather than settle for a refund at this point, my goal will be to have his eBay account revoked unless he changes ALL of his auctions for High density to use a correct picture and put a proper disclaimer at the TOP of the auction.

Hopefully, the Consumerist and the people they know will convince eBay at least to take action to that effect. After all, my claim of intentional/unintentional confusion is valid and it wouldn't be a big deal to him to change his auctions as long as he wasn't trying to confuse people.

Option 3: Use my Credit Card's Protection

If all else fails, Credit cards often have buyer protection for situations like this. In this particular case, as someone who's unsatisfied with the quality of the product, all I have to do is prove that I've tried to get a refund and failed and they'll credit it back to me instead. They may do their own investigation or whatever, but the issue will be over as far as I'm concerned.

The Moral of The Story

No, it's NOT, "If it sounds too good to be true, it is". First of all, that's a very trite statement that's often wrong. Secondly, this didn't seem "too good to be true". It was a good discount from normal price, but not crazy or unbelievable. I expected the RAM sold through eBay to be lower than retail because if it wasn't no one would buy it anyway.

Instead, the moral here is that when you get screwed, don't give up and take it, fight back! Consumers have options and a well placed complaint or two can get a lot done.

Status

2007.12.04

I've sent the memory back. It's expected to arrive in 2 days. Once I get the majority of the refund, I'll press the issue of the shipping refund. Let's see how this turns out 🙂

2007.12.12

He recieved it on 12/06 at 11am. It's been almost a week which I think is more than enough time to process a return so I sent him an e-mail saying "How soon should I see that refund". I haven't escalated since I haven't received any of the money yet, but I fully expect that he'll quote me some policy about not refunding until he gets positive feedback. That would be a mistake, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[+] 2007.12.13 - Partial Refund

So he gave me a partial refund. Still some $20 to go.

[+] 2007.12.17 - No response so far

I haven't heard anything. Time to ping him again.

[+] 2007.12.18 - Shipping Refunded

He refunded most of the shipping, but I'm not satisfied. He's still misleading people and shorted me cash so time for the negative feedback and report to eBay.

[+] 2007.12.19 - Feedback Soap Opera

Of course, at the end of any auction there's the chance to give mutual feedback. It's a staring contest where no one wants to blink first. I was never one for contests. I left him negative feedback and got a predictable response. But like hell I'm going to let him get away with it 🙂

73 Comments to “High Density RAM – Even I Get Suckered Sometimes”

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As of December 2009 SmileNtango is still at it – fooling people with their high density memory without adequate disclaimers into buying their high density memory while substituting at a higher price ($20-$30 more) when it does not with the one they should have advertised first (low density) but even with that one you can not tell its name brand. Just say NO to SmileNtango since they are going to be smiling all the way to the bank with your money as you tango with a loser.

    At this point, I’ve started to avoid eBay and when I do go there, I avoid powersellers who don’t post actual pictures of the product but a company photo taken from somewhere else. There’s just too much fraud on there now.

Gosh, I fell for this tactic too! The thing is is that you find all memory retailers never entering into the distinction of low vs high density since no one carries high density so he’s banking off of that vacuum of information. Its such an innocuous term that you’d assume like me that it was useless information pertaining to the fact that you’re buying memory with a large capacity (in my case 1GB DIMMs). Also after having enough customers facing this mistake he could have easily increased the transparency and upfrontness on his part by including the line “not compatible with Intel chipsets”. The fact of the matter is that people on the go don’t have time to bother contacting sellers over compatibility issues when they expect the product to work based on all the major qualifying memory specifications (type, speed, bus speed, latency, voltage, etc). Another thing I noticed about his tactic is that you get a cheap price for the memory but not ridiculously cheap that it would raise flags as to the quality of the product. Also note how he offers free shipping for this high density garbage but not for the other viable products that he wants to redirect you to, the “switch” products, which by the way are not competitively priced by any means. His structure stands to position him as a profiteer over buyers who unwittingly fall for this fine print scam.

The beautiful thing about it is that it’s all legal. He’s got everything on the sale page to protect him, the structure makes the buyer always at fault and he makes a small profit with his restocking fees, something like $10, equal to 21% of the total sale price in my case. It is sellers like smilentango that raise the degree of vigilance required of the buyer that is completely turning me off to shopping on eBay. This experience is motivating the authoring of a letter to their offices in San Jose explaining why I’m done doing business on eBay and will shift all my electronic purchases to New Egg.

I would entirely question the spirit of his salesmanship on these matters, and what makes this experience just leave an extra bad taste in your mouth is all the pretense with being an honest seller and wants a win win situation. I chatting with my old roommate Max about this situation and found he discontinued shopping on eBay too because of the drama it brings your way. When the amount you lose begins to outweigh on average the amount you save bargain hunting on eBay its whole model of shopping begins to look very suspect. I’ve steadily shifted my purchases over to Amazon and the sellers listed on Google product search and I think it may be time to completely make that shift and escape the frustrating and unjust culture that exists on eBay.

    Yeah I’ve pretty much had it with eBay too. So very few of the transactions I do there anymore are safe. Generally though, it’s the powersellers you have to worry about. Try to stick with smaller sellers who’ll show you an actual photo of the actual product.

    And don’t forget the option of doing a chargeback on your credit card to regain any and all fees (including the shipping costs) like I did. If he gets enough of these, in theory the bank will cancel his merchant account.

Wish I would have read about your experience a couple of weeks earlier. This crook got me, too.

If you want to give the crook a piece of your mind, according to this http://local.botw.org/California/Simi_Valley/Arumix_Inc/150852317.html

Smilentango’s number is (805) 579-9800

A similar Ebay scam I fell for was the GENUINE SILVER Jewelry. I purchased a couple pieces of jewelry that I guess is called silver as in silver colour. One item I asked to return and the seller wrote back: No Thanks

That was it.

It really pays to look carefully at what is exactly written in any Ebay ad.

Rain from http://electricbrains.com

    Rain, remember that you can do a chargeback on your credit card to get your money back. These annoying eBay sellers are likely all foreigners who don’t share our ideas of honest business or just plain crooks.

I called the number Bob mentioned (805) 579-9800 and asked if they sold memory under the name Smilentango on eBay.

The guy who answered said yes. I tried to talk to him about the situation on eBay and the guy just played dumb and said he didn’t know what I was talking about so I just vented.

Still, it’s good to let them know people are angry. I told him they may get away with this now but some day that’s going to end.

I got hoodwinked by these creeps a few years back. I finally got my money back by opening a dispute with Pay-Pal. Never give anyone positive feedback on EBay as an inducement to get a refund – as soon as you do you’re screwed.

High Density is an alternative memory whose main purpose to save cost for system builders over the standard memory. The drastic discount means limited compatibility. Hence, not for general public who wants to upgrade their home PCs which may not be compatible. In a free market system we have, a seller is free to market high density ddr as long as its nature is fully disclosed in detail with its compatibility requirments. In fact, consumers should be grateful such an alternative choice is available. However, if a seller does not disclose the limited compatibility, the seller is clearly at fault. Similarly, if the buyer does not READ the description “hidden in the plain”, it is the buyer’s responsibility because he seeked and was willing take the drastic ‘discount’. I commend the buyer was willing to ‘pay for mistake’, which nowaday is extremely rare. Taking responsibility must go both ways. Not only sellers take responsibility in accurate advertising for such alternative/limiited compatibility, buyers too need to take responsibility in READing; take responsibility in returning the item; Not badmouting the seller publicly while enjoying anonymity doing it. There was simply no ‘scam’ in this ‘computer guy’ story. He should have disclosed the standard ddr were sold for $140 compare to his $70 purchase he was ‘suckered’ in for. The $70 purchase may have been worth $50 at the time of his return and is now worth about $10. In a highly volitile product such as memory business, there must be a written rule who pays for such real and unfortuante ‘restocking costs’. In wholesale memory business, a same-day cancellation of an order could mean 15% or more restocking cost. Fair and truthful understanding require both side of the story.

    While you have a valid point in the beginning, several of your facts are wrong:

    1) “if the buyer does not READ the description “hidden in the plain”, it is the buyer’s responsibility” – No auction needs a huge wall of text, but posting worthless marketing fluff information has become standard. I don’t blame myself or anyone else for skipping over it. I expect important information to be separate or easy to find plus worded appropriately and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable expectation. If a reasonable person would be confused, then they’re doing it wrong. When not only ordinary people but computer specialists get confused, it seems awfully malicious.

    2) “Drastic discount” – There was no drastic discount. There was a decent discount, but one that I expected. If it had been half priced, then I would have been suspicious.

    3) “badmouting the seller publicly while enjoying anonymity doing it.” – Anonymity? Did you perhaps notice that my NAME is listed at the top of this website. Also a cartoon picture of me? I’m Jeremy Duffy. I think I got screwed and that was due in part to either shiftiness or carelessness of the seller. I’ve already posted both that clear statement and my evidence for such above.

      Sorry to be blunt, but skipping over the specs when buying computer hardware is damn stupid, if only because, at a bare minimum, you want to double check the specs so that they match up with you want. This is even more unfathomable the more “geeky” one is, since the jargon should be graspable. Even more strange is that you “knew” what high density was yet did not know about its compatibility issues.

      Not only that, but the text is hardly hidden and takes up significant screen space. YOU skimmed over it despite it being mere pixels below the specs and adequately distinct from the one paragraph from the blurb about customer service. The seller would have gained more dupe sales by simply not stating any disclaimer at all, which is what the seller SmileNtango actually does in his listings; now there’s a listing an average person could be tricked by.

      The “marketing fluff” is mostly pictures and the storefront template. The wall of text includes seller policy and of course, the info on compatibility. What seems to be the issue is the storefront template itself messing with you, even though these templates are supposed to focus the reading on the center and not sides of the template, which is where all the pertinent information is.

      Rarely is the plain text in an Ebay listing skippable without reading the first sentence, although communication policy and the thank you statement can be skipped once you know that is what the paragraph is about.

      Now, despite saying all of this, I will say that the shipping policy he had was damn outrageous for what it was shipped in.

        If you say so. I stand by my statement that if this was drastically abnormal memory (which it is), it should have been put somewhere else or highlighted in some meaningful way. Especially if they’ve had problems with people buying the wrong memory before.

          Smarter than you says:

          I expect a bag full of cash to be given to me every time I go to the bank, should I file a dispute against the bank now, because they didn’t fulfill my wish? If you knew what high density memory was, then you just didn’t do enough product research, prior to buying the item, not the seller’s fault! If you didn’t know what it was, how can you call yourself a computer specialist? 😀 😀 😀
          Following that logic, I once replaced the air filter on my car and now I consider myself a car mechanic!

    From reading this it’s most likely John sells memory. 😀 If you know where High Density memory comes from, it completely blows his comments away. High Density memory is made from the low density memory chips that couldn’t pass quality control. It wasn’t made to offer the consumer any kind of cheap alternative. It was made to sell bad chips. Next, trying to justify even the concept of a restocking fee is ludicrous let alone 15%. All a person has to do is open the returned package, examine it, and if it’s good, place it back where he got it from in the first place. Where’s the huge expense in that? Plus, whatever expense there is in it can be written off in taxes. So why does the guy making money have to charge the guy spending money for something he’s going to get back from the government? Answer: He doesn’t. It’s just another way to make money for no reason. Finally, just so no one’s confused about SmileNTango’s honesty or intentions, I just made 2 purchases from him. The first 1Gb PC3200 High Density memory which didn’t work. I didn’t blame him. I just purchased a second set of 1Gb PC3200 Low Density memory which also didn’t work. When the second set didn’t work, I checked out the numbers on the chips only to find the first set wasn’t 1GB but was 512Mb per the manufacturer and that the second set was 512Mb PC2700 High Density memory per the manufacturer. I also had to file a claim with eBay to get my money back. So this business man who supposedly did no wrong in John’s eyes is not only doing the bait and switch on people, he’s selling purposely mislabeled memory then blaming the customer for it, trying to up sell them, refusing to accept responsibility for his intentional dishonesty, strong arming people into positive feedback so he can continue to scam people, and charging people fantasy “restocking” and “shipping” costs in order to still make money when he gets caught. Yea, real Joe Honest upright citizen there. Like I said, I got my full refund through eBay. I’d taken pictures of the RAM and provided links to the manufacturer datasheets to prove my case. Even after winning the dispute he’s sending me messages trying to get me to return the memory to receive my refund. What gall this guy has eh? I’ve also filed mail fraud complaints against the guy, (which is why I’m keeping the memory as evidence), and would request anyone who’s been taken by him do the same. He’s been doing this to people for years and the more complaints the USPS gets about him, the more likely they’ll investigate him and shut him down.

GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! People like that all over ebay and the like! besides the ebay and other admins should have policy in place to prevent such from happening in the first place.

He was not scamming anyone. It’s impossible to lay proof a product – “The lay will be lay”. There is a valid use for high density RAM, and these can be very valuable and add new life to otherwise obsolete machines. A large share of the market supports these, so the seller sold you a legitimate product, that you could have benefited from it had you known better when you purchased your computer. It’s not his fault you got one with a crappy chipset — next time know your stuff better. It wouldn’t be an issue for me since I don’t get “suckered” by companies like Intel.

The seller was way too forthcoming in my opinion. If it were me I would not even put a disclaimer at all, just the raw specs. It is the responsibility of the buyer to know whether it will work on their computer. If you cannot do that then maybe computers just aren’t your thing — get a thinbook or a tablet and poke it instead.

I only fault the seller for one thing; giving you a refund. I think people should learn from their mistakes, and by giving you a refund he in essence, legitimizes computer illiteracy.

It is hilarious that you think some consumer group would wage war against an ebay seller. Your whole rant is just gross overreaction to being faced with the reality that you weren’t even competent to purchase the proper RAM. Typical of what I would expect from a “professor” based on most I have had.

    This article was written many years ago, but I maintain that the seller was negligent bordering on deceptive. What possible reason could he/she have had for using pictures of Ram that wasn’t high-density in the advertisement? You wish to fault me for not knowing enough to get it right? Why isn’t it the seller’s responsibility to make sure their information (including the thumbnail) is accurate?

      I have another set of facts to offer the court, but first I’d like to thank whoever is keeping this thread posted and findable. This is an excellent set of arguments on both sides!
      OK: I looked for low cost memory and found a vendor who was selling a limited-compatibility DIMM.
      Item description

      Picture For advertisement only
      Buyer Please Notice:
      Actual Items manufacture or Batch Number may vary
      If you care this. Please contact with us before bid

      High Density Memory is Only For AMD Chipset

      Memory RAM is High Density.Only Work on AMD CPU Processor Chipset

      DO NOT Work on with Any All Intel CPU Process Chipset Motherboard

      Not work with All DELL,IBM,Apple,HP,Compaq,Gateway,Lenovo,Emachines,Packbell,etc. Computers

      Memory Capacity: 8GB 2x4GB
      Memory Type: PC3-12800 DDR3-1600MHz Desktop Memory
      Memory Pins: 240Pin
      Voltage :CL11 DDR3 1.5V
      Non-ECC,Unbuffered
      Lifetime Warranty

      Packing List:

      4GB PC3-12800 DDR3-1600Mhz 240pin Desktop Memory x 2 pcs

      About the Memory Compatibility Questions,Please Feel Free to Contact us.
      —————————————-
      OK, so I contacted them:
      ————————————–
      New message from: computex_tech (24,492YellowShooting Star)
      Hi there
      Thank you for your reply and normally the item could fit :Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-H, AMD A68H chipset
      FM2+ Socket:
      That if still can not work , you could send it back to the address:

      To: Liu JiPing
      Room 1804B-1805A SEG Plaza
      HuaQiangBei Road No. 1002, Futian District
      Shenzhen 518110 Guangdong
      China

      Please Print your EBay User Name correctly on the package for us to check easily.
      Please DO NOT send the parcel via DHL,FedEx,TNT or UPS. Pls pack the item well. Thanks in advance.
      When i get that, full refund would send back to you at once
      That may be you could buy from this link :cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=371403517896&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
      Best wishes

      Regards
      computex_tech
      Customers service Support
      From Mon.-Fri. AM9:30-PM6:30
      Reply

      Your previous message
      Before I bought the DIMMs, I contacted you and asked if they would be compatible with the Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-H, with AMD A68H chipset, and FM2+ Socket: AMD A series processors , AMD Athlon™ series processors. I was told there would be no problem with compatibility. But the DIMMS I received are not compatible. I have tested them in a different mobo and they work, but they are not compatible. I have tried putting each DIMM separately in each of both slots, all possible combinations. There is no dust/dirt on the contacts. I have pulled and reinserted them multiple times. They do not work with the mobo I asked about. They do work in a different mobo and tested good in my friend’s PC.

      This is a compatibility problem. I asked if you sell a similar kit that would work. Are you saying that you only sell one type of DIMM, for AMD CPUs?
      The mobo works fine with other DIMMs, just not with the ones you sent, and told me would work, before I bought them.

      computex_tech:
      hello, thanks for your letter. this memory can work well for both Intel and AMD CPU motherboards. can you tell me your motherboard’s model? if the memory doesn’t work, please use the eraser to clean the memory gold pins and then test the memory one by one separately to have a check.
      And the item could fit for Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-H, AMD A68H chipset
      FM2+ Socket:
      Any questions, please feel free let me know, i will try my best to solve that
      Best wishes

      Your previous message
      I received the memory today, and unfortunately they do not work in the PC they were intended for. It is not recognized by BIOS. I tried it in a friend’s PC with a different AMD mobo and it worked and tested good with Memtest86. Then tried his DIMMS on my mobo, and they worked and tested good.

      So, this is a compatibility issue. Do you sell a similar 8GB kit (2x4GB) that will work with the GIGABYTE/AMD hardware as I originally described it?

      Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-H, AMD A68H chipset
      FM2+ Socket:
      AMD A series processors
      AMD Athlon™ series processors

      computex_tech:
      No any problems.

      Thanks&Regards

      Your previous message
      Can you tell me if this memory is compatible with my motherboard:

      Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-H, AMD A68H chipset
      FM2+ Socket:
      AMD A series processors
      AMD Athlon™ series processors

      Thanks, -Harold

        Readers plz note, the first, earliest contact from buyer to seller appears LAST. This is cut and pasted txt, no funny stuff.

          I was caught off guard by the high-density memory “issue.”
          I’ve been involved with PCs since the mid ’90s but am not really an enthusiast. I wouldn’t claim to be credentialed in information technology. I’m a bit of a sheep, in that I just sort of assumed that the march of ever-better technology would have resolved the “high-density” issue by now. Last time I dealt with it, the cutting-edge was all about EDO RAM (!)
          But as the good technological discussion in this thread teaches, “high-density” RAM is a technique for extracting value from sub-standard chips. i.e. the process of manufacturing memory chips (STILL!!) isn’t perfect enough to avoid a stream of chips that consumed resources to produce, but can’t be sold without ruining one’s reputation as a seller. So they are sent to a recycler (?) OR to a DIMM producer who integrates them onto “high density” modules.
          I went to my mobo maker looking for memspecs. Know what they give you? They give you a list of DIMM model #s that they are willing to tell you will normally work with their mobo. So I love the idea from the seller (above) who said he would list the chip geometry on his offer and let the buyer beware. That should be a reasonable standard of performance among sellers. Any buyer who looks at that info and draws a blank should know not to buy. Let them be parted from their money if they cannot understand that they do not know enough to accept the offer. Until they find that THEIR MOBO MANUFACTURER includes HD-RAM compatibility as a specification. Until they find that there is evidence that THEIR MOBO chipset can address memory modules that are structured to make use of more weight with less usable capacity. QUESTION MARKS have meaning. Everyone needs to understand when a lack of information or comprehension should result in inaction: NO SALE.

            I can continue to post on the case study, but was kind of hoping there would be some response traffic, too… But anyway, readers can now see that sellers have adapted to past disputes. They disclaim graphics that are part of their offer and eBay says, “um… okay.” They post text that can be argued about (could we please hear from the person who says the buyer was outta line to assume that “No any problem” actually means *this DIMM will work with your mobo, without any problem*.”…) Sellers will engage in message exchanges that are inconsistent with foregoing messages, writing messages that passively claim such info doesn’t exist. They know eBay can’t spend much on reading and adjudicating deals, and they bank on that.
            Buyers: whenever possible, buy (or fund Paypal) with a credit card! It’s a safety net that helps good sellers win and bad sellers lose! And hey, look up the definition of the word “Fraud,” so you won’t be afraid to use that word during negotiations.
            Sellers: invest in finding buyers who will benefit from your product, by telling the browsing public enough to know, or at least enough to take a shot at discovering, whether they can benefit from buying! You may need to offer relevant information. If that’s beyond your means or will, then don’t be surprised when your business suffers a loss. You did it your way.

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