Redbubble vs Artists
Considering that Hasbro hasn't really taken advantage of the merchandising opportunities for the non-traditional (brony) audience of their wonderful new show), I was thrilled to discover that there were hundreds of t-shirt and poster options from a site called "Redbubble".
But as I browsed through the options, I noticed some non-Hasbro designs and even recognized some of the work as belonging to some extremely talented artists I know from Deviantart.
Generally speaking, I don't think anyone (fans or producers) has a problem with websites that share limited pictures or content from a show for the purpose of discussing or promoting it (as I do here). Submitting the same to a place to have t-shirts made for personal profit is definitely pushing it, but as long as Hasbro won't provide me awesome t-shirts to buy, I'm not above getting the from someone who will. And if Hasbro doesn't like it, they're within their powers to have the designs taken down and I can respect that.
But there's a very big difference between that and profiting off the completely original and excellent works of actual artists without their consent or permission. Browsing Redbubble's selection was like watching a good friend get punched in the gut.
So who's the problem
In the end, it's the users who uploaded it that are the problem. I get that the website can't necessarily police everything, but their response should be better than it was. After I confirmed with the Artists that they didn't authorize this, I contacted Redbubble and got a fairly lackluster response about DMCA and garbage from their CEO:
Anybody can report a copyright violation as an "other" violation under the image.
In addition RedBubbble operates best practice DMCA compliance and a copyright holder may send a 'take down' notice in accord with the DMCA and that will be expeditiously dealt with by our DMCA team. Details about this are all available on site through the help menu.
Very best and thank you for your attention to this important issue.
Martin
Martin HoskingCEO
In other words: "We're following the letter of the law and if artists somehow notice they're being screwed and take the time and effort to police our site for us, we'll do something about it as we're required to do". So much for Redbubble being a "respectful, supportive and encouraging community of people who are passionate about art and creativity" (source).
Let's be realistic Mr. Hosking; you're putting the burden on the artist who lack the time, energy, or capability to protect themselves and that's not ok. I realize that your site is just like every other site that profits from work uploaded by others and this isn't a new problem (Youtube, Funnyjunk, Memebase, etc, etc, etc), but wouldn't you like to take this opportunity to spearhead protecting your users and be the first of your kind to do so?
Calling out Redbubble
Mr. Hosking, if you truly care about artists and about the site you've created for them, you should be as angry as I am about this issue (probably more). I suggest the following:
When an artist does take the trouble to contact Redbubble about this, it shouldn't require more than one or two communications where they show their authorship. From there, Redbubble should do the following:
- Calculate the profit paid to the uploader of any artist's work from the time of first upload.
- Apply an "infringement debt" to the Redbubble Account Holder's (RAH's)
- The offending RAH will not be able to futher profit from their submissions until and unless the infringement debts have been settled.
- The offending material should be immediately deleted so that the infringement debt cannot be settled by further infringement.
- The RAH can have the option to pay the balance manually to more quickly reactivate their profit-earning potential.
- Once the debt has been settled or if a certain time has passed (the RAH never generates enough money), any available money is paid to the actual artist.
I realize this isn't as simple as just taking down stuff and banning accounts, but it is a better solution by far. For one, it eliminates any motivation the RAH would have for infringing since the moment it's discovered, they lose all past and future profits from it. It protects innocent infringers who didn't know better by not bringing down the hammer of Thor, just asking them to make it right. And most of all, it provides reparations to the artist who deserves it.
No current website or law makes the wrong right. You could Mr. Hosking. You could and you'd be the first of your kind. Can you imagine how newsworthy such a policy could be? You sir, could protect artists and put your site in the media spotlight all at the same time. Consider it sir.
Until then, in an effort to help my fellow artists, here is a list of the infringers:
| Original Artist | Infringing Poster | Taken down? | Reparations made to artists? | Last change |
| Maximillian Veers | Kidomaga (2 versions) | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| Maximillian Veers | Xentis1501 | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| Tkwondo | Polymerwolf | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| Mn27 | Polymerwolf | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| Kloudmutt | Polymerwolf (at least 3 designs stolen) | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| Blackm3sh | Polymerwolf | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| Sefling | Polymerwolf | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| Egophiliac | Kotasa | Yes | No | 2011/09/09 |
| Egophiliac | Mabski666 | Yes | No | 2011/09/09 |
| Furboz | Mabski666 | Yes | No | 2011/09/09 |
| Unknown | Mabski666 | Yes | No | 2011/09/09 |
| Thelivingmachine02 | Jaysticle | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
| MrFugums | LCPsycho (several pieces used) | N/A | N/A | 2011/09/07 |
| Mrfugms has said that this work is either a coincidence or based on his work, but not an exact copy and since he got the idea from elsewhere himself, he has no problem with it. FYI. | ||||
| Yoorporick | Lainejmoore | No | No | 2011/09/07 |
For Artists!
Redbubble's DMCA complain process is Here. Until Redbubble steps up, this is what you have to work with, friends. Hopefully my links will help speed the process.
I will be watching to see what happens and post updates as they occur.
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Bear in mind that’s there’s also the nuclear option: Contact Hasbro. Non-profit fanart is protected under fair use, but earning a profit off of a company’s intellectual property is a big no-no. Given the sheer number of FiM images uploaded to the site, plus the fact that they’ve already been notified of the error, they’ll have a very hard time claiming safe harbor if Hasbro decides to go after them.
Or better yet, contact Welovefine and let them get the ball rolling. They’ve been granted the legal right to produce FiM shirts and are directly impacted financially by this development, so you know they’d contact Hasbro in a heartbeat and get the matter expedited.
Fanart isn’t actually protected in most cases, it’s overlooked (so say the various articles I researched recently due to this issue). Knowing how the law works is a bit depressing because I consider the fanart to be original, even if the characters are not and I think there’s nothing wrong with the artist selling it. However, I still see the other side and respect Hasbro’s right to the character and how it’s used (kind of like how Disney could sue someone selling Mickey porn t-shirts). I know that some of the DA artists are selling their own designs on Redbubble and don’t want to stomp on them so I’m conflicted in that regard.
I personally would like to see a legitimate, blessed mechanism for artists to sell their works with Hasbro’s permission…. In fact, that gives me an idea. I’ll keep you updated if there’s any progress.
Both Kotasa and Mabski666’s pages are no longer available. Not sure if they took it down themselves, or if they were taken down by the artists’ complaints.
Point is, two are down regardless of how it happened. Can’t stop now, can we?
Thank you for the update. Based on my communications with the artists, I’m thinking they did NOT pull them down themselves. I’m disappointed, but not surprised that Redbubble’s answer seems to have just been a user ban instead of something useful.
I find it stupid that Lainejmoore put in the comments of the img “Art by YoorPorick on DA.” as if that would make stealing it okay.
Agreed. I personally think it’s bad form to relocate art in any way without permission (speaking of individual artists only in this instance). But profiting off of it is like stealing someone’s TV and leaving them a note saying, thanks for the TV. Polite? Strictly speaking I suppose so, but right? No.
http://www.redbubble.com/people/kotasa/t-shirts/7630837-filly-lyra-in-socks
Kotasa is still there with manipulated stolen art.
I didn’t flag that one and it probably won’t be taken down because Ego put up a “in socks” template. The Lyra is original from… somewhere. Kotasa themselves? Probably not, but it’s not Ego’s.
“RedTrubble” or “RedRubble” are more apt names. This POD company continues to sell your work even if it’s deleted from the site (or so you think it’s deleted). I know this from experience and from the experiences of two others that I know of. So they don’t give a blast about copyright infringment. They never made reparation to me either. And no apology either. Martin Hoskings ethics really shine through over there. They were already warned once by Fender but type Fender into the search and watch all the lovely pictures come up.
Site like RedBubble that do little or nothing to prevent copyright and trademark infringement are the reason that terrible legislation like SOPA and PIPA are even a possibility in the USA. Large corporations would see sites like RedBubble shut down or blocked if they continue to allow members to sell works that violate copyright and trademark rights. RedBubble will remove works if it receives a proper DMCA take-down notice, but they do not submit the profit they made from sales to the copyright or trademark owner (as far as I know).
I was just thinking the same thing. There really SHOULD be some kind of law or prohibition against this blatant abuse, but obviously SOPA and PIPA aren’t it.
Try googling the phrase “RedBubble Scam” – you will find thousands of people have been getting ripped off on abuse of copyright and RedBubble does nothing or little about it and profits from it. This is an old story.
This is very interesting indeed. I used to be a member of RB until I found out that they were selling pro-Nazi, pro-racist t-shirts. The t-shirts were making fun of the victims of the Holocaust. It wasn’t until a group of members got together to contact the ADC (Anti – Defamation Committee) that the t-shirts were “pulled” down. The ADC announced that they worked “together” with RB. But the images weren’t taken down, just “hidden” from public view. (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dont-mention-the-war-artists-reminded-that-hitlers-no-joke-20110604-1fmdf.html and http://www.antidef.org.au/home/w1/i2/ – scroll down and you will find 2 articles related to this)
Many members have been banned or suspended because they openly objected to these tees. ( you can read about it here http://firmspy.com/law-disorder/5613/exclusive-oh-heil-arnold-bloch-leibler-represents-company-spruiking-neo-nazi-propaganda and http://firmspy.com/allens-arthur-robinson/5752/reflections-on-the-hipster-hitler-saga-lawyers-censorship-and-professional-ethics )
But it didn’t end there. They started selling baby clothes with pictures of serial killers and that hit the press again. ( http://www.news.com.au/national/hitler-bin-laden-and-milat-baby-clothes-on-sale-in-melbourne/story-e6frfkvr-1226073337077)
But did RB stop? No, they went on to sell, and are still selling, baby clothes with pornographic, sexist and racists comments. ( http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/anger-at-porn-images-on-baby-clothes/story-fn7x8me2-1226132571643 )
Once can be a mistake but 3 times! Well that just shows that they put money before ethics. And when it comes to money – well they try their best NOT to pay the artists. (http://redbubble-scam.blogspot.com/ and http://support.redbubble.com/discussions/problems/2098-pay-the-rest-of-my-outstanding-balance and http://www.redbubble.com/groups/redbubble/forums/4/topics/253021-red-bubble-payments )
Back to the copyright issues – seems like most people just want to turn a blind eye http://www.geekalerts.com/star-wars-iphone-cases-from-redbubble/
The story of Kim Dotcom and Megaupload has many similarities to RedBubble. Internet piracy is so hard in practice to police and at the same time so profitable that it becomes a way of life. “Hey everyone else is stealing too!” is not a defense for looting and should not be a defense for stealing other people’s IP.
Earlier this evening RedBubble closed my account.
No specific reason given other than a blanket statement about misuse. No warnings, not a single word! After reading a few helpful blogs from former members, it’s clear that my artwork was far too popular for them to keep me around.
It seems that Redbubble is bad news for anyone creative and looking to make a few extra dollars on the side from said creativity. Now I’m reading claims that Redbubble ROUTINELY closes popular accounts down, steals original artwork and sells it themselves.
Rest assured I’ll be trolling Redbubble looking for my artwork and ready to file complaints as soon as I find any. Geek Professor, I wish I had found your website before I had joined RB. Keep up the great work.
RedBubble: A sheer waste of bandwidth. Firebomb the bastards.
Wow. I was going to say they’re no worse than most of these sites that pretend preventing copyright is hard, but I guess I was wrong. That and someone I know bought me some shirts from there and their sizing was strange and useless (a large shirt isn’t a large and the ones that are large are too long).
I was just reading a journal about a member who’s account was cancelled because they provided a link to another pod site – perhaps Zazzle or some other site. Yet, there’s nothing in the policy that I’ve read that states that’s an abuse or not allowed and there’s still many many members on there that have links to other pod sites. Many have links to Zazzle. You can be sure though that if one of the MM don’t like you, a complaint will be made and your account deleted pretty quickly. The trouble with Redubble closing your account is that you now no longer have access to your art and Redbubble can continue to sell it. It happened to me. It was only a card but when I attempted to get restitution and answers, I was shut down, lied to and then ignored. I still have the emails from Redbubble showing those lies and excuses etc. Good luck getting your art off their servers!
Apparently filling out a DMCA complaint solves it pretty fast. The other artists I notified were able to get their down 🙁
Devon I would be really watchful now RB have done this before and will continue to do so
the whole place is a cesspit of filth, and wrongdoing, trolled by bullies who are mates with the CEOI and behave like pack dogs when there is even a sniff of dissent, the continued NON payment of members hard earned, the lack of ethics, and the straight forward and blatant ripping off of deleted artists is astounding in it’s arrogance
RB will fall and soon and HARD, and once more Martin Hosking will destroy another web based business as he has done n the past
keep your eyes peeled mate
Screw the DMCA, notify Redbubble’s Upline Internet service providers that if your work isn’t removed, THEY will be included in any lawsuits you file.
Redbubble has cloud providers in Dallas.
You have to trace it back several levels but they ARE
hosting in the states.
I went on Redbubble today for the first time. I was STUNNED at all the Dr. Who, Wonka, Disney, etc. they are allowing people to steal and sell. I won’t join them to sell my own photos because of it.
I believe this site should be taken down totally if they refuse to protect the rights of artists. They are profiting, their members are profiting, by stealing photos and designs from companies and other artist. Period.
red bubble deletes some of my designs, what does it mean?
I’m afraid I have no idea.
So I was testing the waters with redbubble and digitally drew an original Belle from beauty and the beast because it seems that it was allowed for fan art and Disney themselves had it removed from redbubble within two days…I know better I am a graphic designer but I was curious. It seems to me that some of the copyright issues are done with artist from other countries and I was wondering if they have to follow the same compliance as the United States….but on that note my drawing was done by me and was not a stolen drawing from Disney which there is a huge amount of that going on.